gategrrl

I never saw Jack/Sam ship, either, until Evolution and Lost City, but then once I saw it, I saw it everywhere--or at least the attempt to shoehorn it in, even in season 1. *g* It has nothing to do with what anyone else said, but my own stupid brain, and it ruined almost the whole show for me now. *g*

I'm not necessarily seeing Daniel/Vala ship on the show, but I don't even like their friendly moments. I don't want them to be friends. I can't believe in this Daniel. I'm disliking him more and more with every episode.

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And it's quite a trick when a new character can make you dislike one that you've liked for years, eh?

Yeah, I don't for one second believe that Daniel would open his arms in welcome and praise to Vala like that, no matter how forgiving he was. She took too much away from him. And he's not the same niave "boy" he was in the first season with Shyla. I thought he knew better.

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And it's quite a trick when a new character can make you dislike one that you've liked for years, eh?

Yes! I'm disliking Daniel's reaction to Vala, much more than I dislike Vala herself. I actually dislike how everyone is reacting to her.

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moonshayde.livejournal.com

That's where we differ. I don't mind them as friends because I think that Daniel geniunely tries to see the good in people and he's trying with Vala. Mind you, I don't agree on how TPTB have rushed this on the audience to the point the characters are waxing poetic about her, but historically Daniel is one to try to be compassionate. And since TPTB have "softened" Vala, then it makes sense for him to have softened his stance on her. For me, it would be highly out of character for Daniel to continue to hate her.

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To me, Vala's progression to pussy-cat just doesn't ring true.

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moonshayde.livejournal.com

That's what is annoying me the most. I feel like TPTB wrote themselves into a corner. I tend to look at everything from a storytelling pov, and for me, they introduced her as a sassy sexy thief. (Mind you, I also didn't like PU.) She was selfish to the core. Then, they brought her back part time and realized they needed to do something more with her character so they kept her as a selfish thief, but with a softer underbelly. Then, as a regualr, they knew that wouldn't fly, so they changed her into this really nice mommy who wants to winover her demon spawn child.

This progression is so choppy and illogical that it makes my brain hurt. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

However, I can handle Daniel a lot better this year than last year. This year, he feels more like Daniel to me. I'll never get the Daniel I want back, but the Daniel that I saw last year (with Vala) is not a character I want to watch. This year, he's got some of that spark and compassion back and I like that. But that is as far as I can go with it really. I watch the show on a surface level. And I think that is the honest reason I can give Vala some leeway this year. But I can only speak for myself.

Overall, it really does speak to poor quality in writing.

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Then, as a regualr, they knew that wouldn't fly, so they changed her into this really nice mommy who wants to winover her demon spawn child.

This progression is so choppy and illogical that it makes my brain hurt. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Exactly! And it drives me nuts. *g* It doesn't ring true, thus I don't buy it, and I don't think Daniel should either. Why wouldn't it have worked if they'd kept her as a selfish thief with a softer underbelly?

Also, I just don't get that Vala wants to win over her child. She seems very cold and ambivalent towards Adria. Daniel seems to care more about her than Vala does. Even so, they both seem very mild about it all. I get an extremely "ho-hum" feeling from them both. I don't really even get what they're trying to go for.

However, I can handle Daniel a lot better this year than last year. This year, he feels more like Daniel to me.

I feel exactly the opposite. *g* I feel like he's not anywhere close to being Daniel any more. In season 9, I felt it was a logical progression of the character, but this? I hate it.

but the Daniel that I saw last year (with Vala) is not a character I want to watch.

I didn't really want to see more of that at all, and would probably be complaining just as loud if they'd done that, because I didn't like that Daniel either except--I felt he was being the real Daniel. I still liked him and felt he was completely justified in his reactions to Vala. I just wanted him back so we didn't have to see Daniel so manic all the time.

But as far as Vala goes, if we had seen some logical progression with her character, I think I'd have been able to accept it better. Now it's just:

She's changed. She's good now.

How has she changed?

It doesn't matter. She says she's changed and everyone treats her as though she's changed, so she has changed. Also, Daniel says she's changed, and now even Bra'tack says she's changed. There you have it. She's changed.

This show actually succeeded in making me hate Bra'tac. *g* I never thought that would be possible.

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I don't buy the softening of the character at all. One of the things that made Daniel's interaction with Vala in the past was that he wasn't fooled by her at all, and now it's like he's totally snowed. I can't stand to watch it, and yet I can't look away.

I think it's highly out of Daniel's character to be so totally taken in by someone like Vala, after having learned his lessons with her the hard way--again and again and again.

I don't think Daniel ever hated her, though. I just don't think he should trust her at all or be her friend in that way.

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That little scene is EVERY bit as shippy as any moments the J/S shippers squeed to death over. More, actually.

I'm still throwing up.

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EXACTLY. After a scene like that, couldn't you just HEAR the Sam/Jack shippers saying how that validates their ship beyond any sort of denial by nonshippers?

This is so beyond the type of scene they had Jack and Sam play - it's undeniably shippy to me, considering the sort of crap the PTB used to foist off as Jack and Sam scenes.

I find it VERY hard to see it as a nonship scene. And I still want to put my finger down my throat and throw up.

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I'm not sure I really care if the J/S shippers use it to validate anything.

I'm more bothered that people who would have screamed to holy hell if that scene were between J and S will probably see that as purely platonic, not an ounce of ship in sight, just because they like Vala and adore Daniel.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way for me. Ship is ship, and this ship is no less tolerable than J/S ever was. In some ways, I find it more repugnant.

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That's what I meant, SBG, I didn't say it very clearly. My brain is scattered today.

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Nah. You've said it several other places in the thread, and we're clearly in agreement. ;)

It boggles my mind, frankly, that people can react so differently to two very similar situations.

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Well, apparently my style is too confrontational for OS at the moment (which may or may not be true). I'm not trying to turn anyone around from their Vala-adoration, etc. But my attitude needs adjusting so that I can be calm, cool and collected before posting what I *feel* so I don't upset anyone or make them feel like I'm attacking them.

I guess if you like Daniel and Vala together, you're feelings are so much more likely to get hurt than another type of shipper. But perhaps I'm wrong.

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