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I don't know WHY I did this, but I went to GW, after a long absence, and noticed a very lively "Sam Carter is the Bestest Character" Thread, so I figured, what the hell, why not. So I clicked on it. There was a lot of extraneous chatter, no biggie.

And then.

I saw the animated flashcard sig of someone who took the final scene of Sam and Jack sitting at the dock, by themselves, "fishing", without Daniel and Teal'c anywhere in the picture. Of course. Just like TPTB on that show *wanted* the smarmy J&S fans to do. It's just so...no wonder why I'm so happy RDA is not a regular on that show anymore, and so fucking happy AT won't be on for the start of the season. Good grief.

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There, there...it was bound to happen. Fans are fans all over. I've seen fans where they cut out everybody but Jack and Daniel from team pics, I've seen them cut out Sam and just leave the boys. I betcha there's some teal'c only fans and Sam only fans, etc, etc...

See, I like the starwars movies...I despise JarJar binks. I've watched a version of the movie where somebody cut him out. Maybe somebody will be clever enough and have enough resources to re-edit some of the stargate eps and cut out the boring sh!t they saddle us with. Can you imagine how much more interesting Threads would have been without the shippy cr@p in it? :)

*ahem* I have a copy of Threads with almost ALL the SamCrap edited out, except where necessary. It muchly improved the episode.

See? And I'm sure there's some Sam and Jack fan who could use all the stuff you edited out and be very, very happy at watching what was once a smart, independant woman lose her mind and go after the unattainable. :)

I'm sure there IS a fan who's edited out everything extraneous except the Sam and Pete and Jack and Chicky quadrangle.

It just sucks that the whole fandom is so polarized. I never liked the S/J thing - I thought it weakened Sam because, honestly, I love Jack but she can do better - but I was tolerant about it until the end of 7 when they started actually compromising the characters to up the drama.

If they'd just kept everything as subtext, shippers, slashers and noromos could all enjoy the show, and the only polarization would be in terms of what fan fics we choose to read and write.

Everytime I think of what they've done with that particular subtext, I try to imagine what the backlash would be if they'd pushed the J/D slash subtext as far.

There's a thread on GW that I have posted on that asks: What Character Should Get the Boot?

One guy said he wished Daniel would stay dead.

I wrote in that I thought Carter and Weir should both get the boot because Carter is a poor excuse for an AF officer, woman, is a drip etc etc.

Then someone just asked me "what does her being a woman have to do with it?"

Um...cuz can you see the guys on SG1 getting the drippy awful story lines SHE'S gotten? No, I don't think so. Wetter than a stream of tears.

Duh.

Ah, I found the thread. Gotch yer back. ;)

Wonder what would happen if Gateworld got a full on assault from the our Stargate crowd? I've only been visiting the forums since late 2003, so I have no idea what I missed before that. But it seems to me TPTB only read forums that largely support the shipper POV.

Maybe they need to know we're out here? :smiles sweetly, bats eyelashes:

Yes, I saw, and *thank you*. Yeah, there ARE some shippers there who DO like Daniel, but I tend to think they're few and far between. Or they're afraid to say anything. Who knows. I don't go over there much. The OSers who do post at GW tend to stick to the Daniel threads (where you can find them).

Dani also posted a lot on GW. Pugnacious poster. I stopped after a while because I got tired of the constant defensive stance I had to put on. That, or I was extremist in my opinion, (ie different).

Yeah, on an opinion thread which I think is rather mean anyway, I can't see how they could be upset if pwecious Carter is given a boot, too. I didn't say anything about Jack, cuz he's pretty much gone anyway.

Yeah, Dani is who's inspired me to go over there a bit, though I do stick to Daniel and anti-shipper type threads.

Maybe I shouldn't, though. Maybe I should march right into some shipper threads and ask how they feel about the end of S8, and how they rationalize that S&J aren't a disgrace to the Air Force, or why that doesn't matter.

A few shippers came into the anti-shipper thread and said they weren't happy with the end of 8. They didn't want to wreck the characters to get the ship. That is a point of view I can totally dig and respect, even though I loathe the idea of them as a couple under any circumstances.

I have nothing against people shipping. I have everything against people putting the hook-up ahead of the characters' integrity. That's the same thing people often do in real life when it comes to relationships, and it sucks there, too.

I wouldn't recommend going into any of the J/S Shipper Threads and asking anything that would sound remotely like criticism. They're protected vigorously if you dare go in and question their POV.

The HardCases post in the J/S shipper threads. :-)

Thanks for the warning. Maybe I'll lurk a bit.

Oh, they know we are out here, they just don't give a Flying F... ;)

Yeah, I had a feeling that might be the problem. Ah, well.

Here's a fantasy: Sony does some market research, notices what really brings people to see Stargate, and decides to emphasize that stuff instead of the crap they want to believe people tune in for.

It COULD happen.

*whoooooooosh* Did you see that flying pic???? *g*

You do? GG, we have to talk. :)

I'd email it to you, Tiv, but I think it's a 23meg file, and I can only email 10meg of information.

I could direct you to the gracious person on OS who gave it to me, though. ;-)

I tried to download one of those, but it didn't work. WOuld like to see one.

Once it's on DVD, I'll be able to learn a rhythm to hitting the FF button. It'll be like watching Return of the Jedi - after a while, I could automatically skip through the Ewok scenes without missing a beat of the Death Star scenes.

Ouch. I am glad I have still managed to keep a S1-2 version of Sam in my head. It makes it far less painful to write her that way.

You what's ironic, in a way? Many of the fics I've posted up on SG_Fic_Review are about Sam, or have Sam as the POV character - and I really LIKE her then. In the hands of a competent writer who gives her some *dignity* and some actual *character*.

The dichotomy between the two Sams-fanfic and show- is huge.

I used to like the character well enough. I have met enough fans to know that there are many out there that just love the ship...but then they can see what I cannot.

I love Sam the way I thought she was. And I think AT has tried to stick to that, but it's become impossible. When I first started seeing the show regularly, it was in the 5th season on syndication, and I was ecstatic that a female lead wasn't paired with any of the guys. (S5 is very non-shippy, actually, wonder why they backslid later?)

So much for that. I really have trouble coming up with a consistent interpretation for her anymore. I think most fanfic writers just settle on one and ignore the bits of canon that seemingly contradict. Not much else you can do.

Yes, come to think of it, you're right about S5. S6 is not too bad from what I can remember, but I don't watch all the eps ;)

It actually got considerably worse from S7...stupid Ptb!

I'm watching 5 right now, and so far not only is there no ship, but the relationship between Carter and O'Neill is fun - adult colleagues who care about each other enough to snark. No tension, no awkwardness.

6 was very short on ship, but there is the bit in Metamorphosis where she puts her had on his shoulder, and the bit about going to Ska'ara's wedding in Full Circle. Neither of which came off as hugely shippy to me until I saw 7.

I know a shipper who loved the ship UNTIL Cooper turned Carter into a drippy unprofessional cartoon ho. And then she was utterly disgusted with that character, and it all collapsed.

I mean, how can you love a relationship when at least one of the characters IN the ship loses her/his integrity and doesn't follow reasonable human behavior?

me and my pineapple martini say 'hell, yeah!'. :)

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