gategrrl

*shrug*

Granted, RDA acts like he's a plank on acid these days, but honestly, I've watched tons of crap TV shows/movies where the lead is lacking.

Ship it to death? Possibly. But the folks fronting the $$$ aren't likely to appreciate to much slap and tickle between lead characters if they expect to have much profit off of it. And don't forget, the producers have their own new series to keep the backing for, so...we'll see about Ship. If Vala was going to be in it, there might be ship in it anyhow.

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nialla

I'm hopeful RDA's time away will have given him some new perspective on the role. Jack's always had a streak of dark humor, but the silly stuff is just over the top.

Actually, I think those fronting the money probably expect ship, as it's traditional in most shows. The Hero must win his Heroine and all that rot.

There's always going to be people who buy anything with the name "Stargate" on it, even if they don't like certain aspects, so it might balance out those who've given up completely.

I still wonder if the ship would have been such an issue if TPTB hadn't made it an issue -- not onscreen, but off. The more they talked about it offscreen, the more shippers were convinced they were going to get a payoff and kept clamoring for it. They've been waiting for how many years now?

I'm not that patient. I'm perfectly fine with reading what I want into it (or not), and not getting a cookie from TPTB for reading it "the right way."

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Romance does seem to be standard in lots of genres--add romance, score!

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The ship was an issue for me onscreen only because I noticed how they began to isolate Daniel and really downplayed the team and the interactions, friendship, and affection between everyone else, for the most part. Jack was allowed to have Teal'c as a buddy, and that was about it.

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You could be doomed either way. If you have Jack, people complain about Jack/Sam ship. You have Vala, people complain about the Daniel/Vala ship.

So it could have been shippy no matter what. This, for me, is just one step closer to SG-1 the way it was.

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nialla

Unfortunately, I don't think the cast composition will be enough to get back the days of yore. That would require having writers who actually gave a damn and would write for the team -- the entire team, working together and not making doe eyes.

I think we're probably doomed to ship either way. TPTB are as obsessed as (some) teenage girls.

How it goes probably depends on which member of TPTB is in charge of a given project. Some seem skewed towards Sam/Jack and others towards Daniel/Vala. Maybe they'll go for a two-fer in another project. [groan]

Poor Teal'c ain't getting no love. Neither is Mitchell. Hey, wait... I have an idea. *g*

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Well, I'm not deluding myself into believing what we'll get would be something right out of the early seasons. It's impossible to mimic that now for many reasons.

But for me it's a step in the right direction. The last two movies were pretty much shipless, one of which had both Vala and Jack in it.

There will probably be some scenes that could be construed as ship. But since the other movies were so low on it, I really don't have anything to show me that the next one is going to jam packed.

I could be wrong, of course. But news that a movie will be more Jack-centric is good news to me.

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nialla

I guess I just wasn't all that thrilled with either movie to get too excited, no matter who's in it. Perhaps if I remain pessimistic, I'll be even happier if they surprise me. *g*

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I have sincere doubts they'll be able to get RDA to give any kind of serious performance, especially if they pair him up with the Tappinator. I'm going to guess that this movie they'll have the team go back in time and what we'll see is younger versions of them on screen for most of the movie. Bad Write seems to like those temporal-wank type plots.

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There's also the possibility that a *story* can be centered around a character who isn't the main do-er, if you know what I mean. So, RDA might be in a few scenes, but not in its acting center (as in the example you have)

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Yup. And it'll be just as craptastic as the last one.

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nialla

I vaguely recall talk of a plot possibly along those lines. I think it was talked about before the series ended, but I'm not sure.

Something about a story taking place in an early season, which makes no sense because you can't really de-age the actors. I'm wondering if it will be akin to the DS9 episode that inserted characters from that show into "The Trouble with Tribbles" from the classic show.

It would fit with the love of temporal wankfests, and would give them the opportunity to go back and retell an episode to put forth ship, just like they did back in season four.

Could also be a reason to leave out both Vala and Mitchell, if they go with it being some sort of timeline change like they did in Continuum, so those two wouldn't exist as part of the team in the future.

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Oh! OH! I know!! JM was waxing poetic recently about ship on his blog and made a comment that in his mind Jack and Sam had 'been together' since season 4 or 5 (I can't remember which he said). Maybe this will be a way for them to show how Jack and Sam got married in Vegas with the presidents special permission and they've been together ever since Divide and Conquer. Hell, I'll even throw in another x-files type reference and have it that they had kids (twins even) but they gave them up for adoption in order to 'protect' them from the evil NID types. Yeah...that sounds like something RIGHT up Braddikins alley.

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betacandy.livejournal.com

Yes, they talked about doing something set in S2 - I remember CJ specifically mentioning S2, and I thought that must mean it was supposed to tie into a particular ep from that season.

But yeah, ain't nobody passing for that age anymore.

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nialla

I was thinking it was season two or three, but knowing my luck it would be season four so they could revisit the whole Upgrades/Divide and Conquer thing again. Who knows, maybe they're going back earlier to set it up that they were already involved in some way.

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I'm holding back on any celebration because they're saying the story is "Jack-centric" which I fear is code for "We're so gonna ship the hell out of this!"

Oh, yeah, definitely. I didn't even read reviews/reactions to the other movies, for the most part, but for this one I'll see what others think and then decide if I want to watch it. (It's not that I care if everyone likes it or not, but what people say about it that will help me decide. *g*)

I also want to see the team working together as well. And I even don't mind Mitchell being along. I think he could be an interesting add to the team mix, if they actually keep the team together for most of the movie.

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nialla

Even if it's Jack-centric, if it means the story centers around something in Jack's past, but it's the team working together, that would be wonderful.

More likely, it'll be Jack's been kidnapped or something, so they can say the story revolves around him, but doesn't really show him much.

I don't mind Mitchell being along either. I really liked him at first, and not just because I like Browder, but even when they featured the character, he was sort of a non-entity.

Maybe they just expected all the Farscape fans to tune in for Browder and Black again, but I was really wanting to see some stuff about him working to fit in.

They really tap-danced around the "who's in command" issue, and it could have been an awesome episode to have Mitchell and Carter go toe-to-toe over something. That's one of the things I liked about Jack and Daniel in the early years -- they could argue and hash things out. Even if they didn't fully agree with each other, they took the time to listen, at least most of the time.

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Maybe they just expected all the Farscape fans to tune in for Browder and Black again, but I was really wanting to see some stuff about him working to fit in.

Yeah, but I think they did a much better job with him than with Vala. Even though they kept changing his character in season 9 and that upset me at first, they eventually got to a happy medium, and I liked him more. I think it would have been more interesting if they'd kept him as the more straight-laced, somewhat uptight guy they portrayed him as at first, though. Either way, I never hated him, and as time went on they found a more happy medium with his character. Even better, he had great chemistry with both Michael Shanks and Chris Judge.

I also agree I'd have loved to have seen Mitchell and Sam more in conflict with each other than they were. I *hated* that little "they're friends" backstory, because it seemed way too contrived to me. It's likely they knew each other, but Daniel knew him, too. Why couldn't they leave it at that? It was more intriguing that way and didn't feel like they were trying to force people to like him.

That's one of the things I liked about Jack and Daniel in the early years -- they could argue and hash things out. Even if they didn't fully agree with each other, they took the time to listen, at least most of the time.

That's the thing that bugged me about Jack and Daniel of the later seasons. In the early seasons, they actually did agree more often than not. They disagreed about methods and actual plans, but overall they both wanted to get to the same place, usually, on the bigger issues. Jack may have been more cynical about who they could help or how they should help, too.

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nialla

I do think Mitchell fit in better than Vala, just by dint of being in the USAF and becoming part of the Stargate program. That fit with the original concept of the show.

I never hated him, but I never really got invested in him very much. Though I think that was partly because I was so frustrated with the show in general at that point.

I wanted to really like him, because I was honestly thrilled with the casting and that we'd have someone in charge as a character and not phoning it in as an actor. He had great chemistry with his co-stars, but I can't quite figure out why he just never grabbed me. That "bullets bounce" moment with Teal'c and Teal'c trying not to smile still gives me giggles though.

I didn't like the backstory with Sam either. I figure that was done as a preemptive strike to stop any potential conflict between them.

I'd have also much rather not gone the "wounded hero" route and instead have had Mitchell as someone who'd been part of a gate team who'd earned a promotion. Hell, he could have been wounded while on a mission offworld too, if they were so set on a wounded hero type.

Why would they give this particular pilot with no gate experience command of the premiere SG team when there are plenty of other people with years of experience? Mitchell as presented should have been a member of team, maybe even SG-1, but he wasn't qualified to be in charge of any team.

If he'd been someone who'd been promoted, he could have been someone all the team knew and were relatively comfortable with, but unsure about him being in charge of them. And Mitchell could still have had fanboy moments at the beginning and also be unsure about being in charge of the "legendary" SG-1.

I think when TPTB changed at the beginning of season four, they saw Jack and Daniel's bickering and that's all they took away from it. They didn't get that they were usually agreeing about the big picture, but quibbled over how to get the job done. I also don't think they understood Daniel's more diplomatic approach, as Jack's approach tended to involve cool explosions.

Probably didn't help that they appeared to believe keeping Jack and Daniel isolated from each other and snappish would keep fanfic writers from slashing them. Oh, silly TPTB! *g*

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*dances*

I am so happy. No offense to Vala fans, but Jack was there since day one. I am very happy for something Jack-centric.

Hopefully, it will be team centric too. If you've noticed so far both of the movies were light on ship. If they are going for maximum appeal on the movie front, they might keep any shippiness to a minimum.

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graculus.livejournal.com

There are movies? I thought there were just the original movie and the nine and a bit seasons. ;)

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Bwahaha, touche, you're correct.

I still adore the original movie. I watch it when I want to see the *original* 'verse of Stargate, with a growly, damaged O'Neill, and an arrogant, emotionally stunted Daniel Jackson who manages to find love.

*sighs*

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graculus.livejournal.com

Once I heard the concept of both 'movies' (and particularly the bad-things-happen-to-Daniel aspect of it), I made a conscious decision that my canon ended with the season 10 episode Avalon. It didn't even make it to what TPTB considered the season finale. Lo, the power of fanfic! :P

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superbadgirl

Eh.

Of course, I still haven't found the time or resources to watch the first two. I'm not sure my non-opinion's really important.

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Heh, I haven't watched either one, too, and thanks to the husband, we own them both. Still not interested in any way, shape or form to watch them.

But the exit or absence of a late-comer to the mythos is welcome, anyhow.

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superbadgirl

That's true. I really did hate what the introduction of Vala as a regular member did to the overall feel of the show. I'm fairly sure I would have stuck it out to the end if not for that changed dynamic (this is the straw, final straw...).

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AoT is only worth watching if you are vested in the Ori arc and only half the movie is that - the other half is stupid replicator crap. Craptinuum is best left on the trash heap IMO.

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Ark of Truth is pretty bad in regards to story telling standards. it was edited poorly, was choppy and all over the place, and the story bad no sense. I think the only good things I can say about that movie is that Vala and Tomin had a good scene, Teal'c was awesome (but when isn't he?), and some of the visuals were nice. Adria was better than whatever crap I saw in S10.

Continuum is the far better movie of the two. It still has its problems, but the story itself worked better than Ark of Truth. There was a "team" vibe to the story and we actually saw some geniune caring between the characters in this one.

CB did a great job as Qetesh and was probably one of the better villians I've seen in a while. Plus, tehre were lots of nice cameos.

It's slants a bit Mitchell centric, but I actually enjoyed the movie. Nothing deep, but it had a hum of Stargate feel to it.

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I saw that, too. Yay! I might actually watch this one. I was not even remotely interested in the other two. It's not even that I hate Vala, but just that I still can't stand how everyone else acted around her.

As far as I'm concerned, Vala was never on the team--not really. I don't have a problem with having her out.

OTOH, I do like Claudia Black, so I hope it was actually her choice not to do it, because she's getting lots of fabulous jobs elsewhere.

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Vala is barely in Craptinuum. If you like Mitchell, you would probably like the movie.

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nialla

What we see of Claudia is in the form of Quetesh, and I liked her in that form.

Not just because it's been a while since they've had a good villainess, but also because it didn't require everyone else's character to bend and twist to fit around her.

Didn't care for the temporal wankfest though. I wish they'd leave that stuff alone.

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"Temporal wankfest"? Dare I ask what that is? *g*

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nialla

Someone else actually came up with the term, but I adore it, as it perfectly describes what Bridge so often does.

They use time travel to play around characters and events they wouldn't normally be able to (such as ship), then reset things at the end. They get to have their cake and eat it too, hence it's a temporal wankfest.

Even if they don't get into AU ship and the like, the time travel angle is getting old. I like traveling to new worlds, not revisiting the past. They've done it way too much, even for a sci fi show.

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Oh, I see. Yes, I agree. I didn't mind it in that season 2 episode where they went through the mirror thing or whatever, but they kept repeating that same theme.

I was just reading some things in

aurora_novarum's journal, and there was something about Daniel's injury which...wow. If that's true, I can't believe I have heard nothing about it even outside of discussion of that movie. *g*

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nialla

Yep. Time travel/AU stuff can be a fun "what if" now and again, but doing essentially the same schtick over and over, especially hitting the reset button at the end, got really old.

It doesn't allow the characters to actually learn something and move forward, as usually nothing really happened. Daniel's peek into the AU world and learning that the Goa'uld were coming had consequences, and was used to good effect in "our" universe, but so often it came down to just figuring out a way to show Sam and Jack were together without consequences.

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I agree. We already did something like this in Moebius, but I do think Continuum was thought out better than Moebius. I am tired of them doing the same old thing. Time travel has been done to death in this universe.

Still, it wasn't bad at least.

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nialla

I think I was so irked with the general state of affairs, the movies just didn't register beyond a meh.

Recycling the same type of plots over and over just isn't working anymore. Even if it's not bad, it's not all that good either. I'm afraid we'll never see good again until they get some fresh blood.

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I *really* liked her as Qetesh. I wish TPTB had brought her on as that villian in the series. That could have been interesting,

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nialla

I would have even enjoyed Vala the Thief as a recurring villain better than what we got, but Qetesh? Yeah, I'd be there with bells on.

Maybe I'll forgo avoiding temporal wankfests if they do one with Qetesh as the villain. ;)

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Really? Maybe I would then. Obviously I'm a Daniel girl through and through, but if Daniel spent his time angsting about Vala, I don't think I'd enjoy that.

I did come to like Mitchell in spite of the schizoid way they wrote the character in season 9. Besides Vala, he was one of the few I still liked in the parts of season 10 that I watched. I liked that episode with Mitchell and Landry in the cabin, for instance, but it was like watching a TV movie about characters I didn't know, not an episode of Stargate. Ben Browder and Beau Bridges are both awesome actors, but still...not Stargate. Watchable, but not Stargate. hehe

That's really why I ended up not watching the rest of season 10, really. It was no longer appointment TV. I forgot to watch, and then just never got around to it, and then I never really wanted to watch after a while.

I'm not sure if I'd enjoy a movie that was more about Mitchell or not, though. They did a better job of integrating him into the team, and I liked him well enough, so maybe.

Thanks for the info anyway. Maybe I'll look up some reviews of that one, too, because I mostly just avoided any mention of the two movies. I have no idea what occurred in either of them. Or maybe I should just leave well enough alone and continue deluding myself that SG-1 ended towards the end of season 9. :-)

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Vala is there just at the beginning and then barely at the very end. She's just *there* and really does nothing. As a Vala fan, I was *sorely* disappointed. As a D/V ship fan, I was doubly so. As a team fan (team that includes Vala) I was disappointed too. To me it came across that the team could give a rats arse about her. So yeah, it sucked to be a Vala fan and watch this movie, IMO. Mind you, the focus I put above on Vala is *my* take on her character as I am a fan of her. If you didn't care for her, her involvement is really...blink and you missed her sort of thing.

There's way more reasons why I hated this movie, but I digress. :)

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hehe I'd love to hear more of why you disliked the movie, if you have the time and/or the inclination.

Because of this conversation and things I read elsewhere, I just went to read the Solutions Wiki summary of the movie, and...wow. It seems like both Teal'c and Vala were removed from the team for the duration.

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